Are Women More Combative than Men?
Not that long ago I heard a quick news blurb over the radio that said physical altercations between girls and women were on the rise. They attributed this to a more competitive atmosphere but didn't elaborate except to mention sports and career demands. I take it the sports were pertaining to the young ladies still in school and careers to women out of it. Or is it the other way around? No matter. I'm not here to document the top 10 fist fights ever between women. Rather it got me thinking about the relationships women have with each other.
Competition
From where I sit the "competition" vaguely referenced in the news story I overheard was horribly misguided. Sure it's part of it but I've observed plenty of passive aggression in mundane activities that I never knew could be competitive. An example is when I go over to my friends house who has a well established family and lives in an affluent neighborhood. All the neighbors are in each others faces. The men separate to discuss what they wish to do to the house as in "build a new wall" or "add a recreation room to the basement." Then there are the wives:
Wife 1: You're little Tommy is so full of energy. How old is he now?
Wife 2: He's 8.
Wife 1: Really? He doesn't look a day over 5! I bet he'll age well. Sometimes it helps to be a little...behind...with things.
Wife 2: Well Tommy got a bunch of Os for "outstanding" on his last report card. He almost did our taxes for us last year. He's great with numbers!
Wife 1: Really? Tommy count to 100 by 2s with me.
Wife 2: Yes show her how to count by 2s.....
Tommy: 7.....8.....15....
Wife 2: NO TOMMY! BY 2S!!
Tommy: Pee pee?
Wife 1: I'm sure he's just tuckered out. Oooh, your cake...in the oven...it's burning.
Wife 2: Oh..sh...I've been working on this all day. Now we have no dessert....
Wife 1: Oh, honey that's awful. It looked so good. Was it chocolate? I love chocolate. To bad it's burnt now. How about cutting out the center. I bet that's still...edible..if you spent all day on it after all.
Wife 2: I spent last night on it also.
Wife 1: Well my mother has a recipe that takes a weeks worth of preparation and the cake will just melt in your mouth....
On and on they go, it never ends. It's all hidden behind plastic smiles and strained compliments that are really barbs. This was not an actual conversation that I heard but rather an amalgamation of many discussions I've heard over the years. Wife 1 LOVES the fact that the cake got burnt. But why?
Some of you may think this is just snotty upper class folk being who they are. I thought so until I sat back and listened to the discussions of the common folk; middle class female friends of mine.
Daggers
I sat back one day as me and several female friends of mine had some drinks at the bar. As the women filtered into the establishment the daggers began to fly.
"Fake!"
"Ugly"
"Bad boob job."
"Trim those eyelashes already."
"Stupid hair!!"
"Fish lips!"
"Slut!"
"She doesn't have the body to wear that!!!"
There were glares, stares and resentment. Deep resentment. And the sad thing? None of the women they attacked were unattractive at all. In fact they were all quite beautiful. Clearly the physical appearance was triggering something negative in them. It was almost an innate instinct to beat up and tear down a prime specimen.
In these situations I wait for the right time to throw in my own carefully crafted opinion.
Me: I think she's fucking hot!!
This usually elicits head shaking and lecturing and why I should NOT find these women attractive. Wisely, I use this opportunity to pick their brain with follow up questions. I've come up with a half baked theory which someone else likely thought of but I don't care.
Alpha and Beta
I see 2 categories of women in my travels that can be broken down into many subcategories. Let's start with the alpha female.
The alpha female is the type who can walk into a room and just light it up with her looks or demeanor. She doesn't have to work at it, it all comes naturally. She wields great power over those she comes into contact with not through demands, but a warm smile and the power of suggestion. It need not be sexual at all times but genuine. The sky is the limit for her.
Then we have the beta females. Women in this category are not relegated to it by looks. Quite the contrary. There is a self defeatist attitude that runs through many of them which causes them to lash out instead of reach out. They are defensive and wounded creatures. An enterprising and manipulative beta female will untie the others betas to follow her lead on nights out. She'll make sure the angry fire burns and that none of the women with her speak to men and if they appear to be hitting it off with one, she will cut it short. When they are not out she is the one they all come to talk to for support. However she won't support but rather fuel the flames. Why? It keeps her getting all the juicy gossip and keeps her in a position as the leader.
Beta Superior - A false alpha female who leads by undermining the self confidence of her sister women and keeps true to the concept of misery loving company.
Beta Minor - A woman foolish enough to think they need a beta superior to lead them.
Not all women fall into these categories, obviously, but I've seen many that do.
Cat Fight
Some of this stuff will culminate in a cat fight. I once saw 2 strippers break out into fisticuffs while dancing on stage in my college years. I have no doubt that it tied into some of the concepts I've laid out here. And...OK I went to MANY strip bars back then because...I was in college damn it. But that's neither here nor there. What I'm saying is that perhaps these small jabs are ultimately leading to the physical altercations that were mentioned in that radio story. There is a tremendous pressure on women that I as a man will never fully comprehend. There is an internal pressure they put on each other to be "perfect" and an outward pressure from the media which may or may not be an extension to the self imposed pressure. Does every woman want to be a Wonder Woman? I don't know but I suspect many want to take a Wonder Woman down for the count.
Coming up.....
The Drive...
Also....
Giving the gift of "boob." Is it the gift that keeps on giving?
And later...
The myth of equity.
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I've never had to deal with physical competitiveness between women, but I most definitely know how hard women can be on other women. But then again I also notice (working in an office) the competitive games that men play with eachother. Competition can be a positive thing and drive us on to bigger and better things, but of course competition can have a poisonous side. I hope that self-acceptance will become a new social movement and we can leave all the negativity behind...always a dreamer I guess...
Tracey
The pictures for this post are amazing.
I like how you break down woman. I see this all the time. I've chalked it up to insecurities within ones self and the need for attention.
Great post.
From a woman, women can be vicious. I'm not certain why. I would much rather work in an office full of men than an office full of women.
well...I guess I have been lucky in my relationships with women.
*glad you were able to post*
Sadly,I think you may be right about this Ricardo. Humans are effed up sometimes.
But on the other hand (either I'm lucky or just being naive) I have to say that I have some pretty rocking women in my circle. None like you've described (I don't think)...
Tracey - You have touched upon something that I've taken the brunt end of many times at my last job. Men do behave like it's an exclusive club in the office and if you are the outside they will make you feel most unwelcome. This is one of the reasons why I have total contempt for corporate culture.
Urban - Glad you liked the pictures. I have received a lot of positive feedback on my image selection lately. I'm glad to read that that you're one of the guys that dig it. I'm also glad that you have seen what I am talking about even though I was very cheeky in writing this. They are brutal with each other. And the grudges never stop. It's as if they thrive on it.
Marsha - You know, other women have told me this also. I could not see you bothering with this madness. I'm just confused as to where it comes from because the more I see the more I know it has nothing to do with us men. If we were wiped off the planet women would still be doing this.
Meleah - My Internet is back up! You never saw any of this stuff back in your go go dancing days? I would think there would be lots of it there.
Leah - I'm glad you have great friends be cause women need this like they need a hole in their head. as I said not all women do this but a lot do and it's just flat out mean. I know some women who have been depressed for days because they got treated like this. some even went on diets when it was totally not needed.
Coming from a family of 2 sisters, one brother and I am the youngest, I can tell you that females compete--often unfairly, hypercritically and viscerally demeaning. My two sisters know how to cut me to the quick--sure, my brother can do the same, but it takes a lot for him to feel threatened, whereas my sisters are far more aware of their competition. Now if my husband were writing, he would say the opposite as he is one of 3 boys and 1 girl--he is the youngest. He sees males as territorial; they fight for dominance and power. I think women (even unconsciously) fight over male perception--yes, even the feminists, but with them, it is meshed in a hatred for the male and an even deeper disgust for women who are seen as servile to males. My sisters both considered themselves feminists; I did not, yet one is virtually in submission to her domineering spouse and the other consistently caters to male attention, even flirting with my husband. So I'm not a feminist according to many because I actually ask my husband his opinion, I don't make choices about our son without consulting him--I thought it was just common sense, but I was recently told BY A MAN that I am not a feminist. You gotta laugh.
Great post, friend, as usual.
EoR - You are not a feminist. J/K.
Ricardo, The beta classification applies to men too. How many losers sit around making cynical and insecure comments about other men!
I think men can compete and then when the day is done forget it while women tend to be snarky to each other long after. Or whatever.
There were girls in the bar that hated each other and acted mean to each other....but I was fortunate. I have never had 'woman issues' of this nature.
ps....that girl in the first picture needs to eat a sandwich.
Enemy - so in other words you can't be a feminist if you treat men as equals and respect their opinions? Am I reading you right? How is this productive? You touch on another great point here also. I think many women do fight for positive perception among men and THAT is how their dominance (in their minds) is sustained and persevered. But most of the fighting for this perception becomes distorted and in the end confuses us men. Also, I see many, many cases like your sisters. Some come off as very abrasive but really they fall into this weird subordination thing with a guy that is the more “forceful” type. Not physically abusive mind you but 2 times as abrasive as she is. What a mess.
SJ – Yes there are beta men also. I totally agree. But like you said, guys seem to be able to get over it more easily than some women. With many, it’s like a blood vendetta. To drop it is to lose and they refuse to do that. I see it often.
Meleah – LOL! There!! You just did it. LMAO!!! I love ya!! Please don’t think that I’m at all advocating that women starve themselves. Rather the image fit the tone of my piece. The woman is Jennifer Terran who does a lot of haunting music and actually is not as gaunt as she seems in that picture. And rest assured that none of the women in these pictures can hold a candle to your wit and beauty.
From my observations, the answer is Yes.
Sometimes Saintly Nick - I am glad you agree. Can't we all just play nice?
I guess the definition of feminism for some is seeing the male as subhuman, until he is needed for something. Not mine, mind you!
Enemy - I have noticed that and it's no better than men who bash women until they are needed. This really does nothing but cut people off at the knees. Want to know the strange thing? I seem to attract feminist types. WHY? We constantly bicker and she makes it her mission to change (emasculate) me which ultimately fails. I will never understand.
I've seen that behavior up close and personal and I think it is just funny as hell. Jab after jab, so subtle yet so tactful. She didn't know what hit her, lol.
Kinda reminds of Penelope on SNL, just not that extreme.
On a side note, I see the same thing happen to guys, they are just not as tactful.
I'm liking the comments and (hahahhaahha!) regarding Meleah's comment about the woman in one photo needing a sandwich!
Women can be quite vicious with other women. I am not sure what fuels this. I believe you're right in that this viciousness is not even driven by competition for men - it would happen even if there weren't any men!
I've also been jealous of the alpha females or the "huntress" as you wrote about in a prior post. I've also participated in the, "Would you look at what she's wearing?" stab-stab-stab thing. Yeesh. For me, it was more about them having self-confidence - I wish I had it.
When it comes to the office...based on my own experience I'd rather work with men. I wish I could write otherwise. I am not sure what it is, but women seem to have some type of agenda or hidden rules and expectations and aren't very good at removing the emotional content from anything. Everything is personal. Not that I haven't seen great female managers - I have.
Women can be very sneaky and passive aggressive. And territorial.
Great post and very well thought out! The photos and tie in video really enhanced it. I'm glad I watched the video (I don't always!) and the lyrics were great:
"Driven by hate, consumed by fear"
"Nothing wrong with me"
enemy on feminism: hahahaah! Most people perceive feminists as hairy-legged bashers of men.
This day and age I don't even know what is a feminist. If it is based on equal job opportunity, I am for it as long as the qualifications meet the applicant. In other words, I wouldn't want to be turned down by the Army because I'm female, nor taken because I'm female--I want to get the job because I deserve it. Likewise, I don't want to see a boys club at work while women are deemed intellectually inferior and unfortunately, I have seen that. So if feminism is based on equality in the workplace based on mutual strengths, I'm for it.
If feminism is about male bashing, creating a world where men don't dominate exclusively over females, and sending men mixed signals about who you are, then we get in another area. I have a friend who did her Ph.D at one of the Ivys--I will not name it, but her dept., was full of feminist scholars who discriminated not only against male students, but women who chose marriage and even kids. That was seen as submitting to the established white male dominated social order. I did notice (I was in grad school when I got married) that a lot of women stopped talking to me, not only because I submitted to the institution of marriage, but my husband was ex-military so I was seen as a turncoat even though I never claimed to be a feminist. It was simply assumed because I was in grad school. So to me, it's all rather silly because the feminists, in their search for power, are applying another model of social behavior that white males are accused of. We live in a world where women have to work, so I care about gender politics in the workplace, but my private life is my choice alone and it doesn't belong to any ideologue.
Rolando - Men are not as tactful but men usually aren't trying to plunge the dagger straight through the heart either. We ball bust. Sometimes it gets us hot under the collar but we get over it and aren't trying to kill each other with words. Men don't bitch each other out over our bodies. the only way you can hurt a guy over his physical appearance is if you make a joke about his gut or if he's losing his hair and even then it may do nothing. We don't care about that stuff.
LOL about the SNL Penelope thing. Funny gal mmmmm?
MsQ - Why are you insecure about the alpha females. You are bright, attractive (from what little I can see) and available. You have nothing to fear. Rid yourself of this ball and chain.
As for the office, you are just like Marsha. She feels the same way you do. I know some women who chose to hang out with men because of the cat fighting. This is sad to me but provides further evidence to what I'm talking about here.
If I put up a video it's usually well thought out and will tie in directly to what Im writing. The exception was the last video with April March but I like her and my internet was down so I was buying time with that video. Did you know the gun the woman is holding in the second picture is a purse made to look like a machine gun. I saw great symbolism in that. LOL!
Enemy - This is all well said. I do support the idea that yes of course, women should be treated fairly. This is a very positive thing that feminism brought us. I don't ever want to hear stories about so and so getting discriminated against because she's a woman. I can relate to that because I don't want to be racially discriminated against but I could be.
However these strange ideology that some feminist purport, known as "false feminism" in some circles goes into exactly what you talk about here; reverse all the repression that women have suffered throughout history and use it on men. This would be akin to African Americans taking over towns and segregating them against whites. Can anything positive come from this? NO.
False feminism, to me, seems to be about half baked mind control. You say that you got alienated because you got married. So what? But it does not shock me. Would you believe that one of the leaders of modern day feminism Gloria Steinem was also called a traitor because she got married a few years back? And for what? Could they not be happy for her?
And then there is the guilt that many a false feminist tries to lay on us men:
You can't look at that woman.
You can't use those words.
You can't have sexual feelings toward a woman.
You are objectifying a woman by wanting her.
It's your (a man's) fault that we have to shave our legs and wear make up.
If men were gone Enemy I still think women would shave their legs and wear make up.
I'm glad you're out of that circle and just because someone is military does not mean they are animals. The whole thing you just told me makes me sick.
Great analysis as always Ric. When you think about it, women really are combative, but few realize it as we mostly pay attention to men's combative nature. I've known many betas in my time, but not enough alphas.
Leon - Glad you agree. Yes the focus is mainly on men when it comes to aggression but really my experience points to the contrary. I have met to many betas myself and am not impressed.
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